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An open letter to Harvey Norman, Norwest, Castle Hill

I usually find blog rants useless, but sometimes something is just so annoying one is sufficiently inspired. Today I went with my parents to buy them a Tivo at Harvey Norman, Norwest, Castle Hill, NSW, Australia. I am a big Tivo fan; the interface is good and it "just works". I don't mind paying for (or in this recommending paying for) good products.

After selecting the Tivo model, I asked for a HDMI cable. The salesman made a series of questions about what sort of HD TV it was being plugged into; I quickly sensed this as a probe to see what sort of suckers we were, and requested just a "normal" cable.

At this point, he insisted on a $130 (you guessed it) Monster cable, and had the audacity to say that we didn't need one of the really expensive cables because our TV wasn't good enough! I openly expressed my concern, but the annoying high-pressure sales pitch had just begun. The amount of, frankly, crap that he spewed about 4-bit this, 10-bit that, legislating of labels, DA signal levels, mythical customers who regretted buying the cheap cables and who knows what else was to the point of being comical if it weren't so insistent and said with such seeming authority.

There is only one thing that matters - if the cable has passed the functional requirements for being certified to have the distinctive HDMI logo plastered on it. From the HDMI FAQ:

Q. What testing is required?

Prior to mass producing or distributing any Licensed Product or component that claims compliance with the HDMI Specification (or allowing someone else to do such activities), each Adopter must test a representative sample for HDMI compliance. First, the Adopter must self test as specified in the then-current HDMI Compliance Test Specification. The HDMI Compliance Test Specification provides a suite of testing procedures, and establishes certain minimum requirements specifying how each HDMI Adopter should test Licensed Products for conformance to the HDMI Specification.

Now, I can understand that if you buy any old HDMI cable off Ebay for $1, it may be a knock-off that uses the HDMI logo illegally. But there is no way that the certified $50 Philips cable (still very over-priced, but at least not insane, and discounted to $35) performs any differently to some overpriced Monster model certified to exactly the same standard.

The thing that annoyed me most was his analogy to buying a tyre. He stated that "if you walked up to a tyre salesman and I said don't want the Pirelli's, just put the cheap-o tires on my Ferrari" I'd be insane, and thus by extension of that logic I was insane for not buying a Monster cable for my great new Tivo.

This analogy is completely flawed and really just dishonest. A Ferrari is much more powerful and goes much faster than a standard car. It is plausible it needs a better engineered tyre to perform adequately given the additional stresses it undergoes. A Tivo doesn't put out any more or any less bits than any other HDMI certified equipment, no matter what you do. If the cable is certified as getting all the bits to the other end under whatever environmental conditions specified by the HDMI people, then it's going to work for the 99% of people with normal requirements.

Nobody wants to make a significant investment in a piece of audio-visual equipment and feel they are getting something that isn't optimal. Harvey Norman's use of this understandable consumer sentiment to sell ridiculously over-priced cables that do nothing is extremely disappointing.

I'm sure the commissions on these things encourage this behaviour, so it is useless expecting the retailer or individual sales assistant to change their policy to recommend reasonably priced cables. However, it is really Tivo and other manufacturers who get the raw end of this deal; a $130 cable is over 20% of the price the actual Tivo! That is surely affecting people's purchasing decisions.

If Tivo and others included a certified HDMI cable with their device, as they do with component cables, and had "Certified HDMI 1.3 cable included" plastered on the box, it would be a harder sell to explain why the manufacturer would bother shipping a certified cable that is supposedly insufficient, and consumers would hopefully avoid the very distasteful high-pressure theatrics I was subjected to today.

Update: I have removed my description of the individual salesman in the title. Singling someone out invites ad hominem attacks and I have no interest in providing a forum for or perpetuating any such thing.

If it's one salesman, it's a thousand. To reiterate my main point, manufacturers must surely be annoyed that they participate in price wars with each other only to have their margins taken by a gold-plated optical cable company. I believe it is really up to them to get the information into their own market so it can operate efficiently.

posted at: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:23 | in /general | permalink | add comment (6 others)

Posted by Michael Carden at Wed Dec 23 23:06:52 2009

HDMI has given new life to old hucksters like the Monster Cable people. I worked for 15 years building and repairing audio equipment and professionals in that industry love to laugh at the way many of the so-called audiophile products are designed to separate the credulous from their money.

There is a great deal of 'Emperor's New Clothes' that goes into marketing AudioVisual stuff to consumers.

Salesman:(nodding) "You can hear the difference, can't you."

Customer:"Er.. yeah. It's, um, Brighter."

Salesman:"Will that be savings or credit?"

Good, useful HDMI cables should cost between AUD15 and AUD45 or so, depending mostly on their length. Pay more if you would like to subsidise your vendor's expensive lifestyle.

Posted by Russell Coker at Thu Dec 24 11:33:35 2009

Last time I checked Australian law required that tires be designed to operate at 190Km/h.  If you want your Ferrari to go faster than that (legally done on a race track) then you MUST get better tires.

Posted by Charles at Tue Jan 12 08:16:20 2010

I was fortunate enough to find a good online store that sells cheap HDMI cables.  It's a retired guy from the dtvforums who was sick of the rip offs so he imports and sells quality cables for cheap :)  Don't want to spam but he deserves a plug -
http://www.ezyhd.com.au

Posted by Dave Kempe at Tue Jan 12 10:53:25 2010

The cheap HDMI cables are found in the gaming section in JB hifi. The ones in the audio section are all way overpriced.

Posted by Dread at Tue Jan 12 16:19:35 2010

I bought a $25 certified HDMI cable from Woolies whilst doing my grocery shopping and it works flawlessly outputting my HTPC with BluRay to my 42" Plasma.

People who spend more than $40-$50 on a HDMI cable are morons who deserve to be taken for a ride ;)

Surely extorting big dollars for overpriced crap with bogus claims and marketing speak is just outright fraud?

Posted by Damien at Thu Apr 22 23:23:18 2010

As some one that buys a lot of home theater equipment I thought I should point a few things out that are incorrect in what you have written.

Not all HDMI cables are the same and while HDMI must adhere to a certain 'standard' there are different grades; as far as cables are concerned they are definitely not all equal. 

From the HDMI resource you provided;

Quote;

  * Standard (or “category 1”) HDMI cables have been tested to perform at speeds of 75Mhz or up to 2.25Gbps, which is the equivalent of a 720p/1080i signal.
  * High Speed (or “category 2”) HDMI cables have been tested to perform at speeds of 340Mhz or up to 10.2Gbps, which is the highest bandwidth currently available over an HDMI cable and can successfully handle 1080p signals including those at increased color depths and/or increased refresh rates from the Source. High-Speed cables are also able to accommodate higher resolution displays, such as WQXGA cinema monitors (resolution of 2560 x 1600).

Standard and High Speed refer to two grades of HDMI cable, tested to different performance metrics. A Standard cable can transmit a 1080i signal for 15 meters (49 feet) or more, while a High Speed HDMI cable can transmit a 1080p signal for at least 7.5 meters (25 feet).

The following is from AudioQuest; another cable company explaining how higher end cables are tested and why;

http://www.audioquest.com/resource_tools/downloads/whitepapers/HDMI_eyepattern_BER_and_cliffeffect_rev_1_00.pdf

Another thing to consider, the common argument for all HDMI cables being equal is that 'they are all digital so you either get a signal or you don't.' This however is complete untrue. The data being out is digital, the data being received is digital, but HDMI cables are still an analogue connection and follow the same rules as speaker / composite and component cables. They are just as receptive to interference, impedance and drop outs.

I have used cheap cables in the past after believing the whole argument that it's all digital so there is no difference and experienced nothing but handhsaking issues and drop outs from a PS3 during playback.

I'm not suggesting people 'need' to go out and buy expensive cables, but saying the salesperson had the 'audacity' to try and sell you a superior product is missing the mark. Nobody is forcing you to buy high end cables and as you said, you bought the Philips cable. The fact the salesmen tried to get an understanding of your equipment and what you may or may not need is just doing his / her job. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and at the end of the day these 'overpriced' cables don't do 'nothing' as you described them too.

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